Still following Jesus...But not for the reasons you might think

I got an interesting e-mail this morning. I left the person's name out in the interest of privacy. Notice my response. What do you think?

Question:

I came across your blog after watching the movie Jesus Camp and reading your interview with Pastor Tim O'brien. I was born Jewish, after my parents divorced, my mother remarried and my step-father, who basically introduced my to Christianity. After being in a Protestant Church for some time, my step-father felt the need to return to his Catholic roots, and we convert to Roman Catholic Church when I was in middle school. In high school i began to doubt my faith, and now that I'm in college I would consider myself an atheist. The arguments that led me to my current convictions could not be answered by my father or our local priest, and so I would like to see if you can take a stab at them...

1. The idea that the human race began from two individuals?
Answer from father and Church: The story is symbolic, the importance being that God created the first humans, and that we are separated from animals through the soul.
Further Questions arisen: How do we tell which stories are symbolic from the bible and which are not? Can we take any words from the bible literally? Other than obvious reasons of why this is scientifically false such as problems with cross breeding, ask the European royalty, I found this idea to be very troublesome as evolution and the progression of man from our monkey brothers becomes more and more viable with more and more evidence.

2. The idea that the bible is infallible, written through humans by God?
The earliest version of the bible that we have found was written around 350AD. Which means that the words that people take as the true words of Jesus Christ were passed down orally for over three hundred years. I know a belief of Christians is that humans are morally bad or corrupt, so I ask has it ever crossed your mind or any Churches minds that the words that are seen in todays bibles may be different from what Jesus said. But the bible is still quoted and accepted as the absolute truth and the words of God. From written evidence we found today, there is no way to know that some human along the way did not change any of the stories or words. If you have ever taken a history class, you would come to a conclusion that the new testament is a weak secondary document at most.

3. That god is outside of time...
One idea that frustrates me to the core is the idea that god has everything planned ahead of time. That he has a plan for everyone and that God planned the coming of christ since the beginning of time. Time, defined by the constant expansion of the universe is a nifty little thing that makes sure that not everything happens at the same time. For God to know what will happen in the future, he would then have to be outside of time, therefore knowing how every position and action would happen before it happens. To disprove this I will not turn to science, but to Christianities own infallible source: the bible. Anything that could disprove this theory would be any passage that says God changed his mind, for instance after flooding the world, won't even go into that one, God realized that killing every human other than Noah was a bad thing and promised to never do that again, oh wait did he change his mind?

Well I won't take up any more of your time, but I found your blog interesting and wanted to know if you could offer any answers to the questions I have.

Thanks

Answer:

Thank you for writing. You bring up a lot of issues. I appreciate your honesty. So let me be honest back. I'm a follower of Jesus not because I have everything figured out. Not because I can explain how time works and how God fits into that equation (though if you're interested in the subject, I'd check out Greg Boyd's website He's a Jesus follower with some unorthodox views on this matter) . I follow Jesus not because I have it figured out which passages in the Bible are more literal than others. Frankly, that's not so important to me anymore. I don't even follow Jesus because I can substantiate everything written in the New Testament, though there's a guy named Josh McDowell that's an expert on that sort of thing, perhaps you should look him up, but again, not the point. Point being, I follow Jesus for none of these reasons. Even if there was no heaven above or hell beneath, I'd still follow Jesus.

Why?

Because His life and teachings are so stinking compelling! Jesus was a man of the people, a champion for the oppressed, a critic of the establishment, a thorn in the side to the rich and the powerful, and above all, a friend of sinners. His kindness and compassion knew no limits. I love how He went out of His way to upset the religious establishment of His day by befriending harlots, Roman soldiers, tax collectors, and Samaritans. I don't know any teaching more compelling than "love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you and pray for those who persecute you." I'm sickened that most of my Christian friends don't take His teachings more seriously in their attitudes towards war-- but don't get me started. Because just when I feel myself getting self-righteous, I'm reminded that Jesus said, "Judge not lest you be judged" and "Remove the plank in your own eye before considering the speck in your brothers eye." When Jesus was on the cross, He prayed for His torturers "Father forgive them for they know not what they do." If God is like Jesus, then that's good news for everybody.

This is why I follow Jesus.

Everything else is icing on the cake.

Peace,

Aaron

Jesus Camp kids praying for President Obama

Pastor Tim O Brien received a lot of flack when his son Levi O Brien supposedly prayed "to" a cardboard cut-out of President George W. Bush in the film Jesus Camp. Many viewers, including some uniformed people in the media, thought the children at Becky Fisher's camp were worshiping the president, when what they were actually doing was praying for him according to the Scriptural command to "pray for kings and all who are in authority" (I Timothy 2:2).

I've known Tim O Brien, and to a lesser extent his son Levi, since before the release of Jesus Camp. Since then, Pastor Tim and I have had a lot of talks on the role of the Church in society and, although we disagree significantly on many issues, I can say that the portrayal of Tim O Brien and his family as right-wing fundamentalists is off base. The real Tim O Brien, though politically conservative, in no way sees voting Republican as a litmus test for faith. His wife does not consider herself a Republican. And—surprise—his children watch Harry Potter! I've spoken at his church on several occasions, both before and after the release of the film, and each and every time I've found the O Brien family and the church he pastors intelligent and open to new ideas.

Pastor Tim sent me this video this morning of a prayer meeting at his church. I found it inspiring. I hope this breaks some stereotypes.

Interview with Pastor Tim O Brien from Jesus Camp

I've known Pastor Tim O Brien for several years now, including before his family, and in particular his son Levi O Brien became immortalized in the hit documentary Jesus Camp. I've preached at Pastor Tim's church more than once and we've had a few friendly debates on this blog. Our similarities and our differences has produced a bit of an iron sharpens iron relationship over the years. So I thought it might be nice for my readers to get a sense of Pastor Tim's passion for ministry in his own words,unfiltered by the secular media. Here are Pastor Tim's responses to my inquiries.

Question: Tell me about how you and your family got involved in Jesus Camp.

Answer: Our church youth were at a Kids in Ministry conference (a ministry led by Becky Fischer which teaches children the supernatural works of Jesus). The film crew that produced Jesus Camp was there, although we didn’t know who they were. One of the co-producers experienced a dramatic healing from chronic back pain when my son Levi prayed for her. After that, they were drawn to our ministry and our church kids as subjects of their film.

Question: What has been the effect of Jesus Camp on your family and on your ministry?

Answer: Although the film was not edited in our favor, many people saw through the bias and were impacted by the passion of the children. We have tons of stories of lives, churches, and youth groups radically touched by the film. That opened many doors for us. As a result we have been able to spread the message (that youth can minister at a very young age) both nationally and internationally. The open doors we walked through after Jesus Camp have resulted in a steady opportunity for ministry to the Church concerning youth. Ministry Today magazine ran an article highlighting five youth ministries across the country. Ours was one of them.

Question: What has Levi been up to these days? Is he still planning for future ministry?

Answer: Levi is so passionate for Jesus, he is often ready to burst. He preaches in various settings with the emotion of Tommy Tenney and the rallying cry of William Wallace. His brother Luke shares the same fervor. Their daily prayer times are filled with “loud cries” and energy for Jesus. Despite what the press said, Levi has no desire to be a pastor, but he and his brother preach meatier messages than most pastors I know. Since age 8 Levi has had a longing to minister in India and has made one trip already.

Question: You have been a vocal advocate of training young children to flow in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Tell me the affect this has had on your church and on the children in your church.

Answer: Literally I can ask my youth conduct a service top to bottom (music, preaching, altar call, etc.) with a greater anointing than 80% of the charismatic services you will ever see in America. I never even touch the mic. This has come from years of training them and expecting from them. There is no indication biblically that Jesus did not expect children to preach, heal, raise the dead, get visions and words of knowledge, and pray and fast. Over the years, we lost a few families who could not get away from the prevalent entertainment-driven mentality of children’s ministry. The families who have stuck it out, however, have reaped huge blessings.

Question: What has been the focus of your ministry lately?

Tim: Since 1996 the focus of our ministry has been to gain and protect the Presence of the Lord. Everything we do revolves around God’s Presence. Our goal is to have a congregation that is 100% responsive to Jesus, young and old alike. Our ministry has been greatly impacted by World Revival Church (www.worldrevivalchurch.com), which grew out of the Smithton Outpouring. Recently, we have been involved in the opening of a Prayer Center in our community where prayer, worship and ministry goes on for a good portion of the week.

Question: What do you consider to be your life message?

Answer: Our message is that the Church in America and most of the world is mis-focused on initial salvation and Heaven. The Bible is focused on discipleship and the display of God’s glory on earth! We believe that the greatest event in human history is yet to occur. It is the culmination of the ages when what Jesus did for through the cross and resurrection will be fully manifest in a world-wide revival ushered in by a powerful praying Church that carries the stature of Jesus.